Taipei Times: Beijing insists on the "one China" policy and "one country, two systems," and refuses to undertake negotiations with Taiwan. But you say you only need to be elected to a second term in office for China to have to face the will of the people of Taiwan and for Taiwan to be able to restore its unofficial mechanisms for negotiating with China. How will cross-strait relations develop after the election, and should you win, how do you hope to advance cross-strait relations over the next four years?
President Chen Shui-bian: Once I have been re-elected, I will continue to devote myself to stabilizing cross-strait relations and continue to search for opportunities to make a breakthrough with the current situation. I have constantly emphasized the principles of goodwill and harmony, vigorous cooperation, permanent peace and mutual promotion of the sound development of cross-strait relations. We want to establish a peaceful and stable structure for interaction with the other side, and create a good environment in which the two sides may interact in the long term. As for the future direction of Taiwan-China relations, we have no ready-made plan; we hope that the two sides may follow the freely made choices of the people.
PHOTO: SEAN CHAO, TAIPEI TIMESN
As Taiwan has already established a democratic system, changing things requires democratic procedure. The ability to gain the people's agreement (to change) is absolutely not something which any one man or any one political party is entitled to monopolize.
PHOTO: SEAN CHAO, TAIPEI TIMES
Taiwan is a sovereign, independent state. Leaders of states must protect their state's sovereignty, dignity and security. For this reason, we must insist on strengthening our democratic system and the sovereign status of our country, enhance the military's capacity to defend the nation, develop the freedom to focus on Taiwan, liberalize our economy and continue to promote cross-strait interaction on cultural, economic, trade and political issues.
Once I have been re-elected, I will devote myself to ensuring that our peaceful and stable cross-strait policy will remain unchanged, and call on the Chinese authorities to respect Taiwan's democratic system. The only way to contribute to healthy interaction is for the two sides to move forward as equals. I am confident that with wisdom alone, a method acceptable to both sides can be found to create a win-win situation.
TT: The second question in the referendum is about creating a "peace and stability framework for cross-strait interaction," and you have already established a task force to work towards this.
However, since June last year, when you first promoted the idea of holding Taiwan's first national referendum, China has applied pressure on Taiwan through the US, Japan and the EU, and Taiwan has had to refine its discourse on the international stage.
In the past, China wouldn't let foreigners interfere in the Taiwan question, but you call for the Taiwan question to be internationalized. Do you believe this to be in line with the DPP's long-term strategy, and has the internationalization of the Taiwan question begun? How should the head of state "guarantee Taiwan's security, sovereignty and dignity" under the current circumstances?
Chen: Referendums represent a universal value; no democratic country can oppose them. We fully understand the international community's concerns about referendums. But, actually, it's the false propaganda about referendums that the KMT has used over the last 50 years that has made the international community look upon referendums as a political taboo and caused it to ignore the significance of holding a referendum to strengthen Taiwan's democracy.
We have already explained the content and procedure of the referendum many times to our friends in the international community who have concerns about it. This is a referendum for cross-strait peace, a referendum to maintain Taiwan's status quo. It does not violate my "five noes" promise. It's a referendum for peace.
I proposed the establishment of a "peace and stability framework for cross-strait interaction" so that the international community can understand that future cross-strait interactions must be conducted under a system that is manageable and can be controlled. The referendum therefore is significant not only in domestic policy terms, but also in respect to international affairs. China's arms build-up and missile deployments constitute a potential threat to peace in the region. In order to counterbalance China's threat, Taiwan is using a democratic referendum to create "systematic guarantees" concerning future cross-strait interactions. This is a way of demonstrating our responsibility to the international community. I believe the international community will support it.
TT: So will you ask for the involvement of the international community when both sides negotiate the "peace and stability framework" in the future?
Chen: If Beijing is willing to give us its goodwill on the issue, I think both sides of the Strait can establish such a framework by ourselves.
What I must stress is that the interaction between the two sides of the Strait can not ignore the international situation, especially as many countries are still concerned about whether leaders from both sides will create a "surprise" through misjudgment. Therefore, I suggested creating the "peace and stability framework," which can facilitate a predictable, manageable environment to reopen and proceed with cross-strait negotiations.
I would welcome international monitoring during the framework-making process. I will be glad to see the United States, Japan and even other countries facilitate the realization of the "peace and stability framework." I think the process will fulfill the international community's expectations, and therefore I hope that China will not oppose it.
US-Taiwan relations
TT: The US will also hold a presidential election this year. If you are re-elected, and before the US holds its election, how do you intend to conduct relations with the US? If you are re-elected without difficulty, what effect do you think this will have on President Bush's chances of re-election? Taiwan has been a firm supporter of the Bush administration's war on terror. What contribution do you think Taiwan can make in the future?
Chen: We are very grateful for the US' concern over the Taiwan question, as well as its continued support for a peaceful resolution of cross-strait problems. America's policy on cross-strait relations is very clear: the issue must be resolved peacefully: the foundations of this policy, as laid out in the Three Communiques and the Taiwan Relations Act, have not changed, whether the KMT or the DPP has been in power.
We are also grateful to President Bush for stating in 2001 that the US will do whatever it takes to defend Taiwan, and for the statement of the White House spokesman last year after the meeting between Bush and China's Premier Wen Jiabao (
The White House spokesman also made a special point of re-emphasizing that, if China were to use weapons against Taiwan, the US will be there for Taiwan.
Last week, American Institute in Taiwan Director Douglas Paal stressed that the US will do everything within its power to preserve peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait; that the US strongly opposes the use of force by China and its threats against Taiwan; that China's build-up of military forces directed at invading Taiwan is creating instability, and that the US therefore all the more strongly urges a peaceful resolution and an end to such aggressive posturing. We are very grateful for this.
The DPP government has very friendly relations with the US. Our contact with the US has become ever closer and ever more effective. At the end of October and beginning of November last year, I made a transit stop in the US and received the most favorable treatment [of any president of Taiwan] in history. During the course of the US' war on terror, Taiwan has given considerable support and accommodation to the US, and received the acknowledgement and gratitude of the US government and people for doing so. I believe that, from their existing foundations, Taiwan-US relations will continue to advance.
Last year, President Bush visited London. He said that the US-British relationship was an alliance built not just on economics, trade and security but, most importantly, on values. I believe that Taiwan's relationship with the US is also an alliance of values: we are at one in our belief in the universal values of democracy, freedom, human rights and peace.
TT: In the international political arena, the general view about Taiwan is that it is not possible only four years after a handover of power to solve the serious problems created by a single party over a 50-year period. But this is a bystander's analysis: it is difficult to expect the nation to harbor such an academic view. What do you think are the possible dangers of the people of Taiwan seeing things only on the surface and deciding that the turbulence of a second term of political reform under your administration would be too much to bear?
Chen: In the 2000 presidential election, the ratio of DPP to non-DPP votes was two to three. Now, however, we are certainly capable of winning an outright majority, because support for the DPP keeps growing. The DPP and the pan-blue camp represent two different systems, and two different belief systems: the DPP represents progress, openness, moving forward and putting Taiwan first, but the pan-blue camp represents conservatism, keeping things closed, looking back and "one China."
Society has expectations of equality and justice. Those who fulfill these expectations will prosper; those who do not will be consigned to oblivion. We are very confident in the prospects for success of our reforms, because they reflect the people's wishes, and we always stand with the people; we always stand on the right side of history. Anybody can chant slogans, but the most important thing is whether you have resolve, determination. Reform is difficult. If it weren't difficult, it wouldn't have needed a transfer of power to change things. Reform is also bound to have its opponents, because it hurts those with vested interests. Under the DPP, it is the people who are the most important. When the KMT was in power, it was the KMT that was most important. On Feb. 28, 2 million people stood up, proving that the idea that Taiwan has been doomed by the last four years has no credence whatsoever. The people's eyes are crystal clear. Don't underestimate their wisdom.
The presidential election
TT: After the 228 Hand-in-Hand Rally, there was a marked change in the levels of support for the pan-green and pan-blue camps. How do you think the DPP should capitalize on this development and expand its lead?
Chen: We will continue to promote our long-standing policies, because this election is about choices between "Taiwan first" and "one China;" eliminating black gold and restoring black gold; believing in Taiwan and mourning for Taiwan; pressing on with reform and opposing or pretending to reform.
I am different from Lien and Soong, not just in terms of our personalities. This election is a battle between two different routes, between two different types of belief systems. Indeed, we must choose between the road of creating a substantial Taiwan or that of becoming an appendage of China; between believing in the people or thinking lightly of the people. We insist on greater democracy and we have called a referendum, while Lien and Soong oppose democracy, oppose the referendum and oppose the people.
On March 20 the nation will elect a president, but more importantly it will also participate in its first referendum. The referendum is more important than the presidential election. My -- and the entire people's -- endeavor is to make the people masters of their own household. Only when the people are masters of their own household will Taiwan, the people, democracy and I, benefit.
TT: What are the contradictions and antagonisms in the Lien-Soong alliance? If Lien and Soong are elected, what will be their biggest impact on Taiwan politics?
Chen: The Lien-Soong alliance is a marriage of convenience; there is no central idealogical consideration involved. The two old men, in opposition to generational shifts in their own camps, have placed themselves on a pedestal and done their best to put a lid on differences between themselves and contrived to create a false image of unity. It is an image which is full of contradictions. Lien and Soong, viewing the 2004 election as an extension of the 2000 election, believe superstitiously that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; that they only need to get together and they'll win the election. So now the whole election has been reduced to superstition. But in the case of Lien and Soong, the whole does not equal more than the sum of its parts. We don't have to wait until March 20 to see the contradictions between the two of them. They will become more obvious before then.
These contradictions are obvious from many perspectives. Consider Taiwan's status, for example. Soong calls for "one China under one roof," while Lien calls for a confederation.
Legislator Speaker Wang Jin-pyng (
On the referendum, Soong calls on the people not to take part in it, while Lien just says he won't take part, but will respect the people's choices. They keep opposing and yet not opposing the referendum, demonstrating that they simply are not united on the issue.
In addition, on the question of a future merger between the KMT and PFP, Lien says that after the election they will call for a merger, but the PFP doesn't want to express an opinion on the matter. But when Lien and Soong forged their alliance, Soong immediately said he wished to serve as "great coordinator" (
TT: Democratization in Asian countries is often reflected and influences other countries. For example South Korea, which has had a similar pattern of development as our country, is watching Taiwan's election very closely this time. They very much hope that Taiwan's electorate won't give them a negative example and regress on the road of democracy. What can our Asian neighbors learn, in your view, from the election in Taiwan?
Chen: In the past, every election in Taiwan has been accompanied by military posturing from China. If the Taiwanese people can remain unaffected, continue to support Beijing's least favorite candidate and continue to let the DPP stay in power, this would be an indication of a national determination to defy autocracy and pursue democracy.
I also want to point out that in the third wave of democracy, the newly-formed democracies of Asia, including South Korea, Indonesia and the Philippines, are all in a state of political flux. The forces pushing for democracy and governmental change are still under heavy attack from conservative forces. Even in Japan, since the Liberal Democratic Party (自民黨) fell from its long-standing seat of power [and was forced to create a coalition govenrment], the duration of a Japanese premiership has been less than four years. Only when Koizumi became prime minister did Japan's political situation stabilize.
If I can be re-elected for a second term, the past four years plus the future four years, would mark the first time among the budding democratic nations in Asia a government was baptized by the people, successfully ending the old regime.
I believe that such a development would make Taiwan a model for the development of democracy in Asia, and possibly even the world.
The third point of significance, more important than my re-election, is the first ever nationwide referendum in Taiwan. This is not just the first for the 23 million people in Taiwan, but also the first in the hundreds of years of Taiwanese history or even the thousands of years of Chinese history. If such a historic referendum can be successfully combined with the presidential election, it would be the most important contribution and achievement by the Taiwanese people.
The second half of the exclusive interview with President Chen Shui-bian will appear in tomorrow's edition on the same page.
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